My thoughts are: 1) After Andor I can’t say, “Never,” to prequels; but 2) Trek lore as such no longer excites me; nevertheless 3) while I like the revamped Gorn, a nerdy voice within whines the point of “Arena” was we could not judge Gorn intentions by their appearance and also, Kirk is literally on the Enterprise in the two-parter—how can he forget the Gorns’ existence by then? However 4) I just give that inner voice a swirly and move on with my day. 5) Ah, the wedding episode! 6) I forgot Trelane existed but did infer a Q connection somewhere; 6) Like you, I’m not super into Q though; 7) Fan service aside, this was a well-written episode! I felt the nobility and the pain of Spock’s solution to the problem of restoring Nurse Chapel’s memory. Furthermore 8) I think La’an and Spock make a plausible couple, but 9) when I start to root for those crazy kids I remember that slate presumably would need to get wiped per prequel logic, which bums me out.
I'm more interested in intra-series storytelling than in franchise-wide worldbuilding engineering[1] but, given the Doylean goal, I appreciated how the wedding had to be stopped *not* because of its possible impact on the timeline --which would have been easy to set up given Spock's outsized historical role-- but rather because Chapel's feelings were under external control.
To me eyes there's something off about how the Gorn are shown: the close range mode is pretty much 90% "Aliens," the far range mode is something closer to "opaque species with a standard set of technologies but ahead enough of the Federation to be scary," when we get to their home system there's a hint of something significantly more advanced or at least weirder (I'd have liked to see their home world, how radiation is handled, etc), but then their civilization-wide responses to "solar flares" pushes them back to an animalistic mode that's of course convenient but also tonally weird in contrast to their tech level (but not with the close-range depiction). There are ways to get around this in worldbuilding (Stargate Atlantis' Wraiths come to mind), but they weren't even hinted at.
The contrast with the early Borg is unfair (the early Borg are probably among the best examples in TV SF) but unavoidable: they are also scary in close and long range, but those are mutually coherent (drones and cubes are cohesive aesthetically, technologically, and behaviorally), and although the Borg are presented as organizationally and psychologically distinct from the standard humanoid species there's no "press here to stop" button involved[2].
[1] At least in official canon. In fanfic and meta it's a delightful exercise, but one that's more enjoyable the less authoritative any answer can be.
[2] I like some light Picard torture as much as the median Trek scriptwriter seems to, but I'll forever be sad about the introduction of the Borg Queen; it makes for more traditional plots with easier resolutions (single point of failure, etc) but saps the Borg of some of their political strangeness (not a Federation, not an empire, etc). Perhaps the Dominion is an example of strangeness --specially in their predilection for engineered species, which is both a good counterpart to the Federation's stance *and* (and *because*) it's quite effective-- that was maintained right to the end: they weren't defeated via a conveniently retconned thermal exhaust port, but rather a conceptually old fashioned bioweapon[3].
[3] Straying away from the topic, but "The Federation won the war and survived because of a centuries-old illegal but politically powerful faction able and willing to break their ethics and rules of engagement; Section 31 was right all along about unwavering ethical integrity being incompatible with survival" is I think something that wasn't adequately explored afterward — yes, "our" officers got and shared a cure, but they/that wasn't what won the war. This is a direct hit at the Star Trek message! Perhaps worth doing but if done certainly meriting exploration. (I wonder if the events between that and "Picard" hint at a Federation/Starfleet that took the message to heart and decided, psychologically and culturally if not in writing, to move the dial a bit closer to Section 31's.)
"I appreciated how the wedding had to be stopped *not* because of its possible impact on the timeline --which would have been easy to set up given Spock's outsized historical role-- but rather because Chapel's feelings were under external control." -- Yes, this was definitely a mercy, and also more in keeping with the moral values of Star Trek than recent near-nihilistic cases of "we have to restore the timeline because it's the timeline" (as when La'an went back in time and let the genocidal dictator live).
Strange New Worlds' aggressive copypasta of older Trek and other SF sometimes breaches my deflector shields and irritates me enough that I don't enjoy it, despite the bravura character work. Like, this is far and away the best cast both in terms of acting skills and depth of characterization in Trek history, and they're always fun. But the stench of Akiva Goldsman's career-long pursuit of being the most derivative genre worker of his times spoils the party fairly often. I dislike the Gorn as knock-off Xenomorphs and I dislike the mindless unoriginality of having Trek's latest meddling superbeing be one of Trek's oldest (youngest) meddling superbeings.
I don't mind messing with Spock's timeline if what we get in return is a vastly better Christine Chapel.
SNW's virtues are such that it really deserves to add to rather than detract from Trek's overall world-building. The Ilyrian material was a great example of addition. Tell us more about the Andorians! The Tellarites! Add some other Federation cultures that aren't just bumpy-foreheaded people. And sure, do more with the Gorn, just...get a better idea. (And I mean, please, having the solution be 'put them into hibernation', I mean come on, writers' room--tell your boss that that's not a homage to BoBW Part II, it's a retread.)
Or how about this--do what Trek has always needed, and that's do some world-building about meddling superaliens and energy creatures. The Federation should already be pretty aware that this is part of life in the Alpha Quadrant; by Kirk's time, there should be some standard protocols and by Picard's time, the computer banks should be full of superalien data. If Goldsman really wants rip things off, rip of Vernor Vinge (and Babylon 5) on this, or come up with a Trek-original take on it.
Not sure if I'm on board with all of Tim's opinions here, but this--"do some world-building about meddling superaliens and energy creatures; the Federation should already be pretty aware that this is part of life in the Alpha Quadrant"--makes my heart sing. YES! I mean, besides Q and Trelane (oh and by the way, I haven't seen any commentary on it online, but surely I'm not the only one who caught that the Q Child/Trelane is or was also Anthony Fremont from "It's a Good Life"), we've got the Metrons, the Organians, the Cytherians (though they're not in the Alpha Quadrant), the Douwdians, the Talosians, etc., etc. The Federation has GOT to have come up with procedures for dealing with massive reality disruptions at some point, right?
So glad you’re going to be doing this. I found both episodes very disappointing.
Like you, Hegemony part two just kind of washed over me. It seemed like a lot of mindless action and I couldn’t even understand the technobabble enough to figure out what it was they were trying to do and I’m a science writer. I went back and watched the second time still nothing
And then there’s Ortegas. How was she able to fly the Gorn ship given that the controls were wholey unconventional for humanoids?
And don’t get me started on Spock trying to talk to Chapel about their relationship while they were trying to save Batel’s life. That just screams space professionalism.
I would’ve been much more interested in seeing what happened to Ortegas and how they saved her life. “Stable but critical condition” it’s not something you just walk off.
Now, Wedding Bell Blues… I guess over the top, diva wedding planners will still be a thing in the 23rd century? How surprising!
Also, of course it’s Trelane. Can’t you tell by the costuming? Never mind that in the original, he wore a costume that he thought was appropriate to the era of the humans he was going to be encountering. It makes no sense for him to wear an outfit like that in this episode.
There were zero steaks involved. Yes it was nice to hear one of my favorite Neruda poems, but I just didn’t care about anything that was happening. It was so strange to me that everybody could be so duped by this alien entity, and it was only violent emotions that broke the spell? Spock would’ve been much more likely to use his nerve pinched and throw a punch. And where were Sarek and Amanda? And why would Trelane just randomly show up and grant Spock’s wish?
This episode had zero stakes, and again, I just didn’t care.
It’s ironic, but Akiva Goldman is the Trelane of Late Trek. He knows all of the form, but none of the substance.
This is basically where I landed, though I was more actively annoyed by the first episode. Both the overall politics and the treatment of the Gorn, especially. Not that they can't be bad guys, buy Pike says that if they let the Gorn get away with claiming a bunch of non-Federation territory, then they'll be back later for more and more...which is an a hilariously realist argument, given his actual belief is clearly idealist based on the need to go rescue the kidnapped folks. But that would just be interesting if not for the fact that to up the stakes, the Gorn are invading...now? Like, they drew a line in the sand and are IMMEDIATELY stepping over it, is just real funny to me, not in a good way? I do wonder if maybe, if we ever hear anything from the Gorn, their position will be that the Federation rejected that offer when the Enterpise stuck around? So war had already begun?
Also, not a super fan of Grey's Anatomy in space, seemed a bit unprofessional? Also, did I miss something? I wasn't tracking why Spock apologized and really thought Chapel was going to be gone for longer than 3 months?
I enjoyed the second episode considerably more...but I do think that Starfleet can/should be a lot better at recognizing/helping with PTSD than they are. Yeah, being shit at it, probably for reasons of allegory and personal freedom remains common throughout the franchise...but come on. It's right up there with 'someone is mentally compromised' in things that Starfleet really needs more consistent countermeasures for.
My thoughts are: 1) After Andor I can’t say, “Never,” to prequels; but 2) Trek lore as such no longer excites me; nevertheless 3) while I like the revamped Gorn, a nerdy voice within whines the point of “Arena” was we could not judge Gorn intentions by their appearance and also, Kirk is literally on the Enterprise in the two-parter—how can he forget the Gorns’ existence by then? However 4) I just give that inner voice a swirly and move on with my day. 5) Ah, the wedding episode! 6) I forgot Trelane existed but did infer a Q connection somewhere; 6) Like you, I’m not super into Q though; 7) Fan service aside, this was a well-written episode! I felt the nobility and the pain of Spock’s solution to the problem of restoring Nurse Chapel’s memory. Furthermore 8) I think La’an and Spock make a plausible couple, but 9) when I start to root for those crazy kids I remember that slate presumably would need to get wiped per prequel logic, which bums me out.
I mean, they're in their 20s. It's a time for short but intense relationships.
I'm more interested in intra-series storytelling than in franchise-wide worldbuilding engineering[1] but, given the Doylean goal, I appreciated how the wedding had to be stopped *not* because of its possible impact on the timeline --which would have been easy to set up given Spock's outsized historical role-- but rather because Chapel's feelings were under external control.
To me eyes there's something off about how the Gorn are shown: the close range mode is pretty much 90% "Aliens," the far range mode is something closer to "opaque species with a standard set of technologies but ahead enough of the Federation to be scary," when we get to their home system there's a hint of something significantly more advanced or at least weirder (I'd have liked to see their home world, how radiation is handled, etc), but then their civilization-wide responses to "solar flares" pushes them back to an animalistic mode that's of course convenient but also tonally weird in contrast to their tech level (but not with the close-range depiction). There are ways to get around this in worldbuilding (Stargate Atlantis' Wraiths come to mind), but they weren't even hinted at.
The contrast with the early Borg is unfair (the early Borg are probably among the best examples in TV SF) but unavoidable: they are also scary in close and long range, but those are mutually coherent (drones and cubes are cohesive aesthetically, technologically, and behaviorally), and although the Borg are presented as organizationally and psychologically distinct from the standard humanoid species there's no "press here to stop" button involved[2].
[1] At least in official canon. In fanfic and meta it's a delightful exercise, but one that's more enjoyable the less authoritative any answer can be.
[2] I like some light Picard torture as much as the median Trek scriptwriter seems to, but I'll forever be sad about the introduction of the Borg Queen; it makes for more traditional plots with easier resolutions (single point of failure, etc) but saps the Borg of some of their political strangeness (not a Federation, not an empire, etc). Perhaps the Dominion is an example of strangeness --specially in their predilection for engineered species, which is both a good counterpart to the Federation's stance *and* (and *because*) it's quite effective-- that was maintained right to the end: they weren't defeated via a conveniently retconned thermal exhaust port, but rather a conceptually old fashioned bioweapon[3].
[3] Straying away from the topic, but "The Federation won the war and survived because of a centuries-old illegal but politically powerful faction able and willing to break their ethics and rules of engagement; Section 31 was right all along about unwavering ethical integrity being incompatible with survival" is I think something that wasn't adequately explored afterward — yes, "our" officers got and shared a cure, but they/that wasn't what won the war. This is a direct hit at the Star Trek message! Perhaps worth doing but if done certainly meriting exploration. (I wonder if the events between that and "Picard" hint at a Federation/Starfleet that took the message to heart and decided, psychologically and culturally if not in writing, to move the dial a bit closer to Section 31's.)
"I appreciated how the wedding had to be stopped *not* because of its possible impact on the timeline --which would have been easy to set up given Spock's outsized historical role-- but rather because Chapel's feelings were under external control." -- Yes, this was definitely a mercy, and also more in keeping with the moral values of Star Trek than recent near-nihilistic cases of "we have to restore the timeline because it's the timeline" (as when La'an went back in time and let the genocidal dictator live).
Strange New Worlds' aggressive copypasta of older Trek and other SF sometimes breaches my deflector shields and irritates me enough that I don't enjoy it, despite the bravura character work. Like, this is far and away the best cast both in terms of acting skills and depth of characterization in Trek history, and they're always fun. But the stench of Akiva Goldsman's career-long pursuit of being the most derivative genre worker of his times spoils the party fairly often. I dislike the Gorn as knock-off Xenomorphs and I dislike the mindless unoriginality of having Trek's latest meddling superbeing be one of Trek's oldest (youngest) meddling superbeings.
I don't mind messing with Spock's timeline if what we get in return is a vastly better Christine Chapel.
SNW's virtues are such that it really deserves to add to rather than detract from Trek's overall world-building. The Ilyrian material was a great example of addition. Tell us more about the Andorians! The Tellarites! Add some other Federation cultures that aren't just bumpy-foreheaded people. And sure, do more with the Gorn, just...get a better idea. (And I mean, please, having the solution be 'put them into hibernation', I mean come on, writers' room--tell your boss that that's not a homage to BoBW Part II, it's a retread.)
Or how about this--do what Trek has always needed, and that's do some world-building about meddling superaliens and energy creatures. The Federation should already be pretty aware that this is part of life in the Alpha Quadrant; by Kirk's time, there should be some standard protocols and by Picard's time, the computer banks should be full of superalien data. If Goldsman really wants rip things off, rip of Vernor Vinge (and Babylon 5) on this, or come up with a Trek-original take on it.
Not sure if I'm on board with all of Tim's opinions here, but this--"do some world-building about meddling superaliens and energy creatures; the Federation should already be pretty aware that this is part of life in the Alpha Quadrant"--makes my heart sing. YES! I mean, besides Q and Trelane (oh and by the way, I haven't seen any commentary on it online, but surely I'm not the only one who caught that the Q Child/Trelane is or was also Anthony Fremont from "It's a Good Life"), we've got the Metrons, the Organians, the Cytherians (though they're not in the Alpha Quadrant), the Douwdians, the Talosians, etc., etc. The Federation has GOT to have come up with procedures for dealing with massive reality disruptions at some point, right?
Procedures that are NOT Section 31 etc. also, PLEASE.
Definitely, Tim. Telling us that Section 31 has been working on some secret Q-killing weapon would be one of the worst things Trek has ever done.
I worry that you just spoke it into existence.
I agree that the new vesion of Nurse Chapel is worth any continuity snarls.
So glad you’re going to be doing this. I found both episodes very disappointing.
Like you, Hegemony part two just kind of washed over me. It seemed like a lot of mindless action and I couldn’t even understand the technobabble enough to figure out what it was they were trying to do and I’m a science writer. I went back and watched the second time still nothing
And then there’s Ortegas. How was she able to fly the Gorn ship given that the controls were wholey unconventional for humanoids?
And don’t get me started on Spock trying to talk to Chapel about their relationship while they were trying to save Batel’s life. That just screams space professionalism.
I would’ve been much more interested in seeing what happened to Ortegas and how they saved her life. “Stable but critical condition” it’s not something you just walk off.
Now, Wedding Bell Blues… I guess over the top, diva wedding planners will still be a thing in the 23rd century? How surprising!
Also, of course it’s Trelane. Can’t you tell by the costuming? Never mind that in the original, he wore a costume that he thought was appropriate to the era of the humans he was going to be encountering. It makes no sense for him to wear an outfit like that in this episode.
There were zero steaks involved. Yes it was nice to hear one of my favorite Neruda poems, but I just didn’t care about anything that was happening. It was so strange to me that everybody could be so duped by this alien entity, and it was only violent emotions that broke the spell? Spock would’ve been much more likely to use his nerve pinched and throw a punch. And where were Sarek and Amanda? And why would Trelane just randomly show up and grant Spock’s wish?
This episode had zero stakes, and again, I just didn’t care.
It’s ironic, but Akiva Goldman is the Trelane of Late Trek. He knows all of the form, but none of the substance.
This is basically where I landed, though I was more actively annoyed by the first episode. Both the overall politics and the treatment of the Gorn, especially. Not that they can't be bad guys, buy Pike says that if they let the Gorn get away with claiming a bunch of non-Federation territory, then they'll be back later for more and more...which is an a hilariously realist argument, given his actual belief is clearly idealist based on the need to go rescue the kidnapped folks. But that would just be interesting if not for the fact that to up the stakes, the Gorn are invading...now? Like, they drew a line in the sand and are IMMEDIATELY stepping over it, is just real funny to me, not in a good way? I do wonder if maybe, if we ever hear anything from the Gorn, their position will be that the Federation rejected that offer when the Enterpise stuck around? So war had already begun?
Also, not a super fan of Grey's Anatomy in space, seemed a bit unprofessional? Also, did I miss something? I wasn't tracking why Spock apologized and really thought Chapel was going to be gone for longer than 3 months?
I enjoyed the second episode considerably more...but I do think that Starfleet can/should be a lot better at recognizing/helping with PTSD than they are. Yeah, being shit at it, probably for reasons of allegory and personal freedom remains common throughout the franchise...but come on. It's right up there with 'someone is mentally compromised' in things that Starfleet really needs more consistent countermeasures for.